Comment of the week comes from last week’s comment of the week thread. How about that. It’s from someone named Ben David. The comment was agreeing with me about the deviant nature of homosexuality and how it was pushed by activists and liberal media. But I have a few issues with what he had to say.
But ALL this came AFTER the HETEROsexual majority threw over Judeo-Christian sexual morality and agreed to view themselves as hairless chimpanzees. The hetero public accepted the “born that way” myth and the self-declared victimhood/entitlement because they had already accepted pseudo-scientific excuses to embrace their own “natural” sexual desires, and legitimate progress on civil rights issues had been subverted into a discourse about victimhood and entitlement.
Hmmm … what is this Judeo-Christian construct of which he speaks?
(Similarly, the alt-right perpetuates the Leftie frame of racial discourse, instead of re-asserting the Judeo-Christian humanism on which free democracies are based.)
Oh, it’s a “humanism”. And all our democracies are based upon it. How curious.
This is a complete falsehood. As Vox Day states, the term “Judeo-Christian” makes about as much sense as “Islamo-Christianity”:
Anyone who is using the term “Judeo-Christian” is referencing, consciously or not, left-wing anti-Christian agitprop. There are no historical “Judeo-Christian” values; to the extent there is overlap they are Christian values.
Note that “Judeo-Christian” in its post-1940s revisionist usage is a part of the same program as the 1965 Hart-Celler Act. It was adopted specifically to redefine America and destroy the historical fact of America having been founded as a de facto Christian nation.
Ben David rails against liberal agitators while falling for one of their most devious bits of propaganda, (although with a name like that perhaps I am being far too generous).
The false construct of “Judeo-Christian” really took off after WWII for reasons which should be clear to anyone with an iota of historical knowledge. As Day states, it is a complete 20th century fraud. The following graph of mentions from books in the 20th century of the terms “Judeo-Christian civilization”, “Christian civilization”, and “Muslim civilization” is very illuminating.
Enough with this lie of so-called “Judeo-Christian” values. It is Christian values and that is all it has ever been. Do not fall for the biggest liberal prog deception of all time.
I haven’t finished with Ben’s comment though. He also had this to say:
From this perspective I take a rather dim view of Game as an instrument of cultural redemption. It may save innocent young men from financial and emotional ruin, but the alternate language it offers perpetuates the Leftie value framework in which humans are defined by their baser instincts.
Firstly, great powers can be used for good and evil. Game is an absolute necessity for men to be able to navigate the treacherous waters of female relationships. The fact that it can also be used by cads does not negate its value.
And lastly, humans are defined by their baser instincts. The alt-right deals in reality, not pretty lies or devious falsehoods. And the great bulwark that our Western civilization has historically used to counter man’s baser instincts has been the core Western pillar of Christianity. Not “Judeo-Christianity” mind you. Christianity. At this time of the year in particular it would behoove us to remember that.
Yup. The Jewish influence on western civilisation was enormous but it was all channelled through Christianity.
If we were to start listing precursor influences on religions would we start saying Zoroastrian-Jewish or Judeo-Christian-Islam? Or even Zoroastrian-Judeo-Greek-pagan-Christian-Islam?
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When God gave the law to the Old Testament prophets, and worked his will through his chosen people, the Jews… Were the values throughout Jewish values or Christian values?
Considering that Jesus was the fulfilment of Jewish religious law and the promised messiah of the Jews, and the prophet Paul stated that the Christian hope for the kingdom of God on earth was the hope of Israel, i think the term Judeo-Christian has some value.
You can’t separate Christianity from the Jews I’m afraid, although they rejected Christ he has not rejected them.
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“You can’t separate Christianity from the Jews I’m afraid”: of course not. But you’ve not engaged with my point: apart from the Jewish heretic Spinoza, the Jews had virtually no effect on Western Civilisation until the late 19th century except for their influence via Christianity.
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It’s true that Jews were excluded from western society until more recent times, but that isn’t an argument against the term judeo-christian values. Its irrelevant what jewish values are like after Christ, or what contribution they made to society up until the 20th Century (mostly as firewood apparently, especially in Spain in the middle ages).
I wouldn’t call Judeism a precurser religion either. The law and the prophets (Judeism before Christ) are part of the same religion in reality. It is the same God, who demanded he be worshipped in one way until Christ came, and then in another thereafter. Therefore Judeism is a part of Christianity, as shown by the inclusion of the Old Testament in the Holy Bible, and therefore, the use of the term Judeo-Christian makes sense.
Saying it is Christian values only as Adam argues above, is saying that Abraham, Moses, and the prophets have nothing of value to say to Christians.
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You’re utterly wrong. Western civilization evolved with three core pillars underlining its success – The Greco-Roman legacy, Germanic customs, and Christianity. Together they contributed to the European miracle; its genesis beginning with the crowning of Charlemagne as Emperor of the Holy Roman Empire. Its apex was arguably the 19th century but we are still enjoying and living with the benefits of this great civilization undertaking even today.
The Jews lived within this confluence of factors but also apart. They had and kept their own ancient customs, traditions, histories, and religion. The fact that Christianity and Judaism share a common ancient partner in the Old Testament is completely irrelevant to this. You cannot lazily pronounce that even though the Jews contributed nothing to the cultural and historical growth and evolution of Western civilization that somehow their religion deserves to be tacked on to our own and their imaginary contributions endlessly praised for what was our own success. As Allen states, Muslims recognize Abraham; does this then suddenly mean we have Judeo-Islamic values?
Your claim that Jews and Christians worship the same God is completely false:
In other words, stop making shit up.
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I agree. Adam is forgetting about the Holy Trinity. The father, the son (Jesus) and the holy ghost/spirit. The fact is that Jews and Christians agree on two of these and, as Meatloaf said, ‘two out of three ain’t bad’.
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”Judeo-Christian culture” has always been an academic construct, and that from academics too lazy to actually examine the two religions as they should.
The ”Judeo-” part of the equation refers to the Old Testament, with it’s laws, summarized in the Ten Commandments. But the truth is that only a narrow minority of Jews today actually believe the OT. They are the ”Torah” Jews and a minority.
The Old Testament is believed and accepted as canon by Christians, as it is the foundation of Christ’s teachings. He quoted extensively from it, and constantly referred people back to it. He also bitterly condemned what He called ”the teaching of the elders”, which is now the Talmud.
Christianity would stand alone after the New Testament’s Book of Acts refers to the Martyrdom of Stephen (Acts 7: 54-60).
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There are Christians who don’t believe in the doctrine of the trinity. Technically i suppose you could say that they don’t worship the same god as Catholics, but you would be stretching i think to say that Abraham didn’t worship the same God as Christians… I guess he doesn’t get to go to Heaven, it’s the hot place for him, too bad.
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I would love to see someone use the term Judeo-Islamic values to a Muslim. After all both religions recognize Abraham as holding a very special place in their religion.
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I saw someone use the term Judeo-Christian on Twitter a while ago and I thought it was nice. I thought we were pretty similar in our cultural values. I had no idea. It would appear that Jews are evolutionary bred to look after their own.
I’ve been reading a thing or two about Judaism and still feel fairly unsure of things. I wanted to summarise the important thoughts (although a bit off topic I am afraid).
It appears that the intellectual Jews in powerful and strategic positions in America (a very small and secretive group – think Rothschild, etc…) are determined to stop whites from ever electing a future ‘Nazi’ type leader who might bring about a ‘ Holocaust’ type event again. In order to prevent this they have managed to convince the wider world that multiculturalism is a great thing. Then they can ultimately fracture white Europeans, interbreed them with lower IQ’ed third worlders and prevent them from ever being in power in the future.
Nick Rothchild funded feminism to double the tax base and institutionalise children earlier for better brainwashing control. In Hollywood are busy displacing whites so they get used to this future reality in life. Kevin MacDonald lays it all out slowly in many videos.
Is it true or am I just catastrophizing as I am sometimes prone to do?
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I was hiding in a cupboard at one of the recent meetings of Jewish Conspiracy Incorporated and can confirm that all your fears are correct.
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Ha ha.
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Well if they are, they are doing it to the Israelis also. Israel has allowed mass migration of Jews to settle in Israel thinking all Jews should be the same. Much to their chagrin they are finding out that the background culture of the newer immigrants matters, a lot. Lo and behold, even the Magic Dirt of Israel doesn’t work.
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Plus the left seem to love the Palestinians so they didn’t think that one through. Lots of things going awry. I would love to know the truth of it all.
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interesting
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My initial thoughts are two separate things might be being conflated: 1) the relationship between the old testament Jews as chosen people and the new testament post resurrection/Pentecost church as the continuity of the same; and 2) the value of the term “Judeo -Christian values” as a sociological label for western civilisation. I was about to send my views and realised there was a contradiction I need to think through. I am sure an evenings reflection will be useful.
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Thanks for addressing my comment so thoroughly!
I thought the piece I had posted too was already off the front page.
To begin:
1. I am an politically conservative orthodox Jew in my 50s who grew up in New Yawk City in the 60s-70s-80s and (thus had a ringside seat to the first-wave feminism and gay rights garbage I described in my post.)
2. The rest of this excludes the positions and activities of the “Marxists of Jewish Descent” from this discussion. Although they are the most visible – and politically active – members of the tribe, they are deeply ignorant of the Jewish religious/moral tradition, and use what remains of their Jewish identity as a stalking horse/fig-leaf for “liberal” and “progressive” agendas. Most do not read Hebrew and have never visited modern Israel. They are as Episcopalian “freedom theology” nutters are to true Christian believers. Their actions and statements do not reflect Judaism.
3. The blind spot of many Christians to the “Judeo” heritage all around them has several causes, depending on the individual:
– being immersed in it
– having first learned these mores through their own Christian faith.
– having also absorbed anti-Jewish/supercessionist doctrine as part of their christian faith, the remnant of the old historical grudge match between Judaism and her daughter religion.
– thinking that the highly visible Marxist Jews actually represent Judaism.
The framework that most easily covers all the topics you touched on (including Game) goes roughly like this:
Paganism:
There is no single, moral supreme force – therefore:
might makes right
I’m not your brother
Conscience? What’s that?
The result for most is a dirty, brutal life – that at least is mercifully short.
The “greco-roman” side of the Western heritage is the cultural legacy of the tiny, lucky group at the top of a filthy, stinking pile. The cities of Greece and the Roman Empire were teeming with slaves, and these “great thinkers” had no problem labeling entire races as “barbarians”. Both Greek and Roman “democracy” was limited to wealthy landowners.
The Nazis and other socialists had a program of return to this. Marxism essentially defines humans by their ability to work, with no transcendent worth. This is where the sham use of “humanism” is deployed to cover for class warfare.
“Alt Right” people who get a woody at the thought of restoring this kinda thing for the “white race” have no idea of the misery they are wishing for. This is NOT what made America great, or will restore it.
The Jewish revolution:
There is one G-d who is a moral force – a judge.
There is one creator – the world is created with a purpose, and an unchanging universal moral law built in to creation.
and more:
Humans have a special place – they are children created in the image of G-d.
Which means yes you are my brother. No you are not (just) an animal.
Humans have free will and are responsible for their actions.
No shamans or “possession by spirits” excuses you from responsibility for your choices.
This is the “humanism” of which I wrote. It was not invented by Christians.
It starts with Abraham and Sarah.
Moses comes down from the mountain – and the 10 commandments are immediately expanded upon with a new vision of humanity and social relations.(Exodus 21-22-23)
The revolution includes sexual relations.- the new definition of humanity rejects sexual exploitation and deprived unnatural practices, and opens the door to intimacy and spiritual union together with the covenant of family. Both law and tradition protect women from exploitation and direct male sexual energy to family life, as part of his natural leadership role.
This JEWISH legacy has been expanded by Christianity, including especially the continued war on serfdom/slavery and expanding political freedom of the individual, all of it based on the Jewish concepts of transcendent human worth and free will.
Given that framework I make these particular observations:
1. Modern Western democracies adopt the structure of Greco-Roman oligarchy to serve Jewish ideas of personhood totally foreign (even nonsensical) to the Classical thinkers. The United States Constitution reads like a summary of the political consequences of the Jewish concept of humanity. The pillars of the buildings are Roman but modern one-man-one-vote democracies are Jewish, Jewish, Jewish.
2. Alt-right racial discourse is directly opposed to the Judeo Christian concept of humanity that is currently under attack by neo-pagans. It feels good but is at best a description, at worst a sick distortion of what really made the West great.
3. Similarly, sexual “Game” is a response to a decadent society, but at its core is opposed to the concept of humanity that must be restored if we are to save the West.
4. I am sorry if you think that people are defined by their base instincts – from my perspective that is just sad evidence of the inroads the Left has carved into the free West.
That was the point of my post – that the promotion of obvious degeneracy like homosexuality was preceded by a coarsening of the Western heterosexual’s self-concept.
There is no way forward without restoring very Jewish AND very Christian idea that man is more than an animal.
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Sorry for typos –
I meant that Game is at best a distraction…
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