The great danger of losing your frame overseas.

First of all I would like to express my thanks to everyone for their support. Every comment is gratefully accepted and appreciated. There are many aspects of this event that I am not going to go into here as it would not be appropriate. In other words, I will not be making any public judgements on my wife’s behavior or motivations. It takes two to tango.

But I am going to examine the circumstances that landed me in this situation as there are extremely important lessons to be learned for men everywhere. Ultimately that is what this website is about and it has been very gratifying to read from so many of you that I have helped you in some way. The blog started out as a vehicle to sell my books but it has become something else along the way.

The big lesson that we can collectively take away from my experience is the very real perils of overseas frame. This morning I received the following comment from BigusRigus on my shock announcement from yesterday:

I was in Germany for four years and couldn’t help but notice that any guy who had married a German and stayed there became a shell of what they would have been at home. Being blue pill types they, of course, were not aware of the glaring reality that they had entered their wife’s frame for life, with no potential of escape once kids are involved.

My regular readers are well aware that I am most certainly not blue pill. But the issue of frame is indeed the underlining mistake as I identified in yesterday’s article:

In the first 9 years of our relationship she was dependent on me more than I was on her. There were a few reasons for that but primarily it was down to the fact that she was in my worlds; Italy and then Australia.

But the move to Holland last year reversed that position.

In other words, frame. In a modern relationship, frame is everything. To be honest, these days frame is just about all we’ve got. If you lose your frame then you are in grave peril as I can attest. What is worse, looking back at the last 12 months I cannot identify a strategy that I could have taken to counteract this core issue.

Back to the same comment that I quoted from earlier:

My grandparents on both sides each followed the husband in bringing their families to Australia. The wife was promised security and home to raise children, and in return the man received loyalty. Both sets were married for a lifetime.

My grandmother on my father’s side did the same thing. She met my Australian grandfather when he was stationed with the Australian Air Force in Scotland during WWII. At the end of the war she came out to Australia with her 3 year old baby boy, my father. They took the train from Sydney up to the little coal mining town of Lithgow where she was met by her husband’s relatives. My grandfather would not return for almost another year. She was squarely within his frame.

They remained happily married until the day he died from brain complications as a result of his heavyweight boxing career. She came down to see me in Sydney when I briefly moved there as a young man. My grandfather had been dead for a number of years but I foolishly asked if she was ever going to remarry. Her eyes flashed in defiance and this most calm and pleasant woman informed me in no uncertain terms of the complete unacceptability of such an idea. She had a husband, and she always did until the day that she too died.

Loyalty is the most precious gift that a woman can give her man, and no more so than in the unfortunate modern world in which we live.

At work on Friday I met a young man from New Zealand. He recently moved to Switzerland to be with his girl but he is having trouble finding work there. As such he is doing several training courses in an effort to break into the offshore industry. We spoke for a bit and I had the impression of a deer in headlights. He looked lost and scared and I immediately recognized his predicament. I wanted to tell him to go straight back home to New Zealand but of course I did no such thing as he would not have understood the message.

A pity that I did not apply the same message to myself. As I drove home on Friday I felt sorry for the guy, but ironically I was on my way home to discover that my wife had pulled the trigger on me for the exact same critical issue that I had so easily identified in him. Do as I say, not as I do and all that.

If I had a dollar for every story I have heard of Australian guys with beautiful Polish girls in Poland and the relationship failing I would have a very large pile of dollars.

The lesson is clear; you cannot under any circumstances enter your wife’s frame so completely as to move to her original country of residence where you will be in her world. It is the kiss of death. Your marriage may well last but as BigusRigus points out, you will be a shell of your former self. All we have is frame, gentlemen. That is why women are attracted to us. Frame is everything for the male/female dynamic and she must be in yours.

This event has gone off like a bombshell amongst our family and friends precisely because we were so rock solid. But we were rock solid in my world, not hers. If you make such a move do not be surprised one day if you wake up to discover that you are surplus to requirements. Frame will naturally shift between couples over the course of a relationship, but by moving to her country of origin the dramatic nature of such a swing as well as its permanency means that a man will have almost no chance in such a situation.

25 thoughts on “The great danger of losing your frame overseas.

  1. Luke

    Mate, my heart goes out to you both.

    It’s tough, tough, tough, but better that the band-aid is ripped off than letting the wound get septic.

    In my case it was the best thing that ever happened, albeit at the time it didn’t feel like it. I got to define (redefine, perhaps more correctly) myself and the world on my terms.

    Got full-time custody of two beautiful daughters, put on 10 or so kgs at the gym, started making proper money and was no longer defined as so and so’s husband, instead I was just being my own man.

    I also took the unconventional decision to remain celibate for a couple of years. Best thing I ever did. Not sure how it works, but women can sense that you’re not even remotely interested and it drives them crazy. They really don’t like being knocked back. Best of all it allows you to keep a clear head and heart and avoid the complications that come from flings. And it’s all sorts of fun when you do eventually engage socially.

    Chin up and all the best.

    Liked by 2 people

  2. earl

    If it’s any consolation, it’s another lesson about how the headship of the man in marriage is very important and the thing that is being disrespected and emasculated. Frame was always important but guys are often convinced it’s all about her frame…which is really the ‘blue pill’ we are all trying to fight out of.

    Superficial things like the track of land you live, who makes more money, or who has higher level sheepskin on the wall might be factors in her justifying being the head or destroying the vows which will come back to bite her…but the reality is none of that matters because God placed the husband as the head.

    Liked by 2 people

  3. earl

    Since we’re talking about frame…I’ll present something I read today.

    A longer tale from the Old Testament but a good read about what happens when a woman who has a crown decides to rebel against the king and what happens to her and what happens when a woman pleases the man in lawful authority…Esther and Vashti. The king even recognized what happens when women get word of when a woman in the ultimate position authority starts to rebel. (remember that when you choose the mother of your daughters)

    Of note…you’ll notice Scripture refers to both as beautiful. Obviously looks don’t matter in the long run.

    https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Esther+1-2%3A18&version=NABRE

    Like

  4. earl

    The mark of a king who gets it.

    ‘Thus, when the decree that the king will issue is published throughout his realm, vast as it is, all wives will honor their husbands, from the greatest to the least.”’

    Like

  5. Dave

    At probably your lowest point ever, you have still managed to identify so much of what you, your family and our society has lost across generations. I’m amazed. I’m mad.

    My great grandmother lived to 99. She was a teenager during WW1. Widowed early in marriage, with 4 young boys. One died as an infant. Raised the others through a depression all by herself (and extended family). No welfare in those days. No re-marriage either. Not even the slightest consideration of doing so.

    Just like your grandmother.

    I then began to think about my neighbours, were they any different? On the right side, we had a WW2 fighter pilot. Visits inside their place consisted of freshly baked cake from the wife, and war stories from the husband. Pictures of him with his aircraft that as a child I couldn’t really appreciate or comprehend. The rifle in the back shed my brothers and I found searching for our ball after someone hit a 6 in backyard cricket was an added nice touch. A real man, and a proud, devoted, feminine wife.

    On the left side, a widow before 30. She made it to her 90’s, had children and grandchildren. A life spent almost entirely alone but content nevertheless. Someone from our family (including myself after I got my license) would often see her walking home and pick her up. Invariably that was her returning home from church. Faith and devotion to her husband and God for over 90 years.

    Your post made me think how much we have truly lost Adam. My street looks nothing like this today, and as I write this, I realised precious few streets in the country would either. Teenagers today don’t even know what they have lost. If their neigbours even speak English they would be lucky.

    The fall of our people – in particular our women – is nothing short of horrifying. Your grandparents, my great grandparents, and families across Australia until just 20 years ago all really shared the same stories and experiences. Sadly, your current experiences are shared by men across Australia and the west. That is now the standard, not the stoic widow or devoted wife unto death.

    I commented yesterday that I hope this makes you go to new heights in your life. To get your no nonsense message out to the nation and west at large. Now I’m adamant that it has to. If good and knowledgeable men like you are having this happen, then what hope for our society at large? Our men are weak, and our women are narcissists. At the same time, we are being literally replaced in our countries and the churches dwindle with every pensioner who passes away. The youth we do have, simply have little to no contact with even the recent past as good examples to emulate.

    You are needed in the front lines Adam. In truth, we all are, everyone reading this blog is aware of the issues as they stand, and all of us has to play a part to stop this rot.

    If some good comes from all this, I hope that it turns you into an absolute weapon, one that our bought and paid for political class look upon in abject terror. What I wouldn’t give to have you engage these sellouts on tv and in parliament, not to mention reading the riot act to our citizens to wake up, and to our invaders to ship out….

    Keep at it Adam..

    Liked by 1 person

    1. What I wouldn’t give to have you engage these sellouts on tv and in parliament, not to mention reading the riot act to our citizens to wake up, and to our invaders to ship out….

      I have plans, Dave. I have plans …

      Like

  6. Damn. I’d have never thunk this would happen to you.

    Your point about frame and moving into the woman’s world is well taken.

    Years ago I had the options of following a women to another state I had no desire to live in and falling into her frame. I was beta at the time and only dumb luck saved me. But saved I was. My life probably would have ended had I tagged along with her.

    Beware my friends . . . Beware.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. earl

      I’ve been dumb too and in such a ‘beta blue pill’ state…however it’s often good that sometimes God has your back even if you don’t understand it at the time.

      ‘And I discovered more bitter than death the woman whose heart is snares and nets, whose hands are chains. One who is pleasing to God will escape from her, but the sinner will be captured by her.’ Ecclesiastes 7:26

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Screwtape

    Does your recent experience change your thoughts on ‘game’ vis a vis marriage?

    Specifically as it relates to your post “You don’t need game in marriage [you need it before marriage]”?

    Seems to me that frame and game are entwined. And that ‘no matter where you go, there you are” can be applied as well.

    Notwithstanding that the cultural, familial, and social power dynamics of a foreigner-domestic relationship can indeed erode a mans foundation, there still seems to be merit to the idea that frame – as well as many other pillars of game need to be maintained in marriage.

    Game for mate selection is paramount. But as you note the culture of female opionality (feelz) is everpresent. So what can counter this, but game?

    There will slways be a challenge around the bend. Foreign lands in your case, career trajectory/opportunity in mine, but in either case the foundation can seem strong until we realize that there is no longer any bedrock to marriage.

    All foundations – however strong in their designs are built on a culture of sand. So constant shoring is the only option.

    Perhaps there is a bit of semantic grey area as to what constitutes ‘game’’, but again I figure if “always be holding frame” is the lesson, then we ought to be looking at the rest of the game toolbox as well.

    Also, as an aside, there is something about the timing of stories like yours that ive seen many times.

    Within months of ‘this is why mine is so strong’, there is a ‘my relationship has ended’.

    Perhaps there is an unconscious awareness of fragility, some signal that needs to be addressed but due to ego or hope or ?? becomes instead a testiment to what works.

    I dont bring it up coldly or in some frivolous gotchya way but merely as an observation that we might use to learn about how our internals might be working thru things.

    Best of luck.

    Like

  8. Dan F

    Hey Adam, very sorry to hear about what happened. As a regular reader of yours, I was impacted more than I thought I would be. Although we disagree on most things, I truly wish you well and hope everything works out OK, I’m sure that it will. Cheers.

    Like

  9. Starrman

    Adam,

    Just purchased your other book (Hint to your readers. Buy his books, he needs motorcycle money!) Pushing Rubber Downhill. There appears to be a motorbike in this one.
    My first foray was: Run Guts Pull Cones. Good fun and good lessons for men of any age. If only I could party like that now ))

    Chin up Mate!

    Like

  10. Allen

    After my first wife died and I was still dating I had a great offer from one of the women I was seeing. She had four sections (a little over 2500 acres) that had come to her from her family’s homestead. She was looking for a man, and offered to put me on the deed. I went up there, and it was absolutely beautiful, the ranch was worth millions. She was a doctor, and a great gal, but I turned her down. The thing is, I would have been the head ranch hand, not the head of the ranch and we both knew it.

    Liked by 1 person

  11. pukeko60

    V3y sad to hear this. Get back to the old fashioned parts of Oz. The Kiwi bloke looking like a possum staring at headlights is all common.

    No one can keep their frame when they have no supporting infrastructure.

    Like

  12. WhiteAustralianButIRepeatMyself

    I read that in ye ole days in USA before dual citizenship was allowed (law changed for Gods chosen people) if a woman married a foreigner she lost her US citizenship.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. For what is worth I have been thinking about your previous blog over the weekend. I even dug out an old journal full of entries the last time this happened to me. Whenever I have moved to a girlfriends town the relationship has been over in weeks. Not exclusively because of the move but it seems to bring things to a head. The last time this happened me and my then love agreed that I would move to her city for what to me were logical reasons (as in your case). I got promotion in a job near to her, I gave up my flat. I went all in. She even started house hunting. I moved in all my worldly possessions into her garage and was dumped rather unceremoniously within weeks.

    I saw at the time that it was not just about the current relationship. I could see themes of submission and dominance no matter what either of us were saying. By entering her world I was trying to indicate my commitment but this left me vulnerable with no networks and therefore dependent. As I asked myself why this had happened I was on the cusp of red pilling myself but I did not quite make it. One problem, in retrospect was the fact that I had been raised by a single foster parent who was born in 1911, eldest of 10, into abject poverty; she adored men because her miner father and her brothers were her network of support and protection and in the case of her husband her partner in getting out of abject poverty. She had trained me to see women through her eyes, whereby finding a decent hard working man and treating him well, was essential to her quality of life, and she assumed young women would have the same attitude. She never remarried when her husband died in his early 50s. He became almost a saint in her eyes. My foster mum could not begin to fathom the womens movement.

    The second factor is Oneitis, and the third – and I am not sure how to put this – but it seems to me that women lie, to themselves and everyone else, feminism is that lie bolstered by state interventions. It’s easy for the lies to be woven into the very essence of what marriage is. Add to that the fact that the financial earnings gaps between men and women has closed dramatically and you have a recipe for the end of Christian marriage as we know it. Dalrock has been unpacking this relentlessly. I never came across the manosphere or Tomassi until you recommended him. It would have saved me much heart ache and resources if I had. I also see these problems as worsening significantly not improving as we are yet to reach peak FemDim.

    Like

  14. Adam, first of all, I wish you well, and I do not intend to distract from your grief with the following blurb. But here I want to offer another perspective.

    “The lesson is clear; you cannot under any circumstances enter your wife’s frame so completely as to move to her original country of residence where you will be in her world.”

    Using ‘Frame’ as the operant descriptor of this situation is not precisely correct. The reason the relationship gets rocky in a strange city/country is because the female has a greater power in that sphere of influence than the male. I believe if you replace the word ‘Frame’ with the phrase ‘sphere of influence’ in the OP, then it should sit better. That includes, if necessary, removing her from her own family’s influence, which can be formidable.
    I’ve lived in Asia for 14 years, and I married a woman I met here. I know from experience that it is possible for me to exert a dominant frame in our relationship, even though my wife might have a greater sphere of influence in the local culture, and even though I actually depend on her in many ways.
    The way I look at it, she is my helper, and she can either help me faithfully, or she can betray me. If she chooses the former, then we’ll both do better. But if she wants to choose the latter, then she knows her suitcase is in the closet, and there are replacements available who are just waiting for her to slip.
    I won’t deny that it certainly is challenging to the core. I often get burned out and let things slide. But when I exert Frame, I often come out looking like the ‘foreign devil’, and we all know how women love bad guys.
    Adam, you are right about one thing. I would NOT advise any man to marry FIRST, and then move his wife to a feminist empire. Guys who go to Eastern Europe or Asia to find a wife, are taking a huge risk in bringing her back to the West. There are some ‘innocent’ women who go nutz once they get a taste of liberation from the patriarchy, and I’ve seen a few of those.
    In my opinion, it would be better for a man’s marriage (or easier for the man, depending on how you look at it), to go live as a king in a backwoods patriarchal society, than for a (relatively) pristine bride to be (figuratively and literally) adulterated by the ‘civilized’ West. Of course there are exceptions, but beware!
    Hopefully, you and your ex will soon discover that the pasture is not as green for her as it is for you now.
    Best wishes!

    Like

    1. Wayne, I thought about the Asian angle when I wrote that piece. And I considered clarifying the point that it is only applicable to Western countries, but for some reason I didn’t include it. You are, of course, perfectly correct.

      Like

  15. Shy Ted

    When I married I entered my wife’ frame and it gave me 15 of the most amazing years. And then one day it was over, just like that. Same for everybody IMHO. The only way to avoid it is to die first. Keep paddling, cycling and all the healthy stuff and you’ll come out OK. And the 15 amazing years were not wine and roses they were the hardest years of my life. It just took a long time to realise it. A tough life is far better remembered.

    Like

  16. Eric

    You know, I don’t want to pile on, and I don’t think I am.

    To me, here’s the vital point: does the woman have power?

    If she does, any time she does, she will screw you up, screw up the children, screw up the marriage, screw up herself. Ultimately, the female only cares about herself, in the extreme short term.

    This is why red-pill doesn’t work, and this is why feminism does work. There is no such thing as “maintaining frame”. Women are not stupid, and women are not children. What women are is supremely selfish human beings. They are smart, and they direct all of that towards getting as much for themselves as is possible, and screw anyone and everyone else.

    Like

  17. Bigusrigus

    I was chatting to a few blokes at a buck’s on the weekend. I was trying to make the argument that a relationship works best when there is a single captain of the ship. Preferably you and ideally you’ve never had to overtly express it. Like a couple dancing, the man leads, and he just gets it. This is the theory anyway, and also my experience.

    If you carefully observe human nature for what it is, you have probably noticed that chicks like to pull the strings, but don’t really want to be responsible when things go belly up. Don’t believe me? Next time let your missus pick the movie alone, then when it is shit, hold her responsible. My bet is she won’t like it and prehaps even try to rationalise it away; “You should have said something, rah rah rah”.

    The point of my discussion with these gents was; if you’re not captain of the ship, who is? And if the ship runs into the rocks who will take responsibility? Her? There was a popular opinion around the table that “we’re both captains”. I suggested that most sports teams have one coach, most companies have one CEO, and most armies one general. And why would a relationship be any more suitable for a co-captain arrangement?

    I queried my mate next to me, who is a commercial pilot, and asked him how many first captains are in control of a flight?. “One”, he replied. Then I asked him what would happen if we appointed two captains on a flight, each with equal authority. “Shit would hit the fan”, he quickly responded.

    I cop a fair bit of crap from my mates about my captain vs. co-captain retoric. I like to discuss, particularly when I see guys taking a back seat in a relationship and leaving things to chance that she won’t fuck it up. The funny thing is, that on the rare occasion a missus is present and hears my position on male leadership, the look on their face is priceless. Despite what comes out of her mouth, you can see that she agrees and really just wants her man to take charge (covertly).

    I’ve been watching a bit of Rollo on YouTube lately, and he has made a few points about polartity being the most important factor in relationship stability. Of course, I understand that men and women lay on a spectrum, and opposites attract, so a hyper-feminised woman is not necessarily best for all – it could quite easily be other way around. Nevertheless, it is an interesting consideration when adopting a leadership style for your relationship.

    I think the guys in marriedredpill subreddit offer some good pragmatic advice on this. Lead or be misled, own your shit, and try to maintain some form of outcome independence. She’s not on your team, and she’ll hate your decision. Resist DEERing. STFU. It’s really advanced leadership when you look at it objectively, but certainly not easy at all to implement in practice.

    @earl, the Bible references are appreciated.

    Liked by 2 people

  18. Pingback: Whose job is it to keep mama happy? | Dalrock

  19. Post Alley Crackpot

    Hamsters need excitement
    If their lives don’t provide them this
    They incite relationship violence
    Common sense
    Simple common sense

    Like

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out /  Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

This site uses Akismet to reduce spam. Learn how your comment data is processed.