Revisiting, ‘You don’t need game in marriage’.

One of the most important abilities that you need to possess and actively utilize is the ability to put aside your ego and carefully scrutinize your past attitudes and opinions that have turned out to be wrong or inaccurate. The other option is to double down and this is the most common reaction. Doubling down is so tempting because it doesn’t require any thought or introspection. So it’s easy in the short term but self destructive in the long term.

As I have said in the banner page on my beliefs and opinions;

… as an adult I reserve the right to alter or change the following positions based on new and relevant information as it comes to hand. Contrary to what many of you may think, it is not a sign of weakness to act in this way.

The act of weakness is to double down. So with this in mind, let’s turn to an article that I wrote in March this year titled, You don’t need game in marriage.

I got married to my wife in 2009, one year after asking her. I asked her to marry me barely three months after meeting her. This year we will celebrate our 9th wedding anniversary. In those 9 years we have lived in Italy, Australia, and now The Netherlands. It has been a stressful period, but not within our marriage. That has only become stronger.

This is where I became complacent in my marriage, which is ironic considering the subject matter at the time. Not coincidentally, looking back this is also right around when we did begin to have problems in the marriage.

Dragging out a quote like this into the brutal harsh light of my impending divorce is exactly why doubling down is the preferred option for most people, which in my case would be stupid because I would rightly be torn to shreds. And yet doubling down still happens most of the time even though it is so stupid.

People talk about the importance of game in marriage. Game is not important at all in marriage. But game is crucial before marriage. If you have no game and you get married then chances are that you will be divorce raped. This is because game itself helps to determine your frame in a relationship, and this frame must be in place from the very beginning. You cannot apply it retro-actively. It is possible to apply some parts of a frame to a marriage if a man becomes red pilled but not the complete picture.

Yep, I was wrong. Horribly wrong. Arrogantly wrong. My incorrect assumption was that once you have frame then you’ll always have frame. Not so, grasshopper. You can lose frame in a moment. In my case it was a plane ride. So you need to actively keep your frame which means you will at times need to utilize game. Entire article debunked. But let us keep going to make this painful process really worthwhile.

As a boy it is your responsibility to become a man, in spite of all the hurdles placed in your path. In fact, the hurdles help make the man. This responsibility is to yourself, but it is also to society. Marriage as an institution does not exist for men and women. It exists to protect and nature the children of such a union.

Looking back, how I could blindly write this while my wife and I did not have children is incredible to me. Because the quote is correct; marriage does exist for the benefit of children. But I must have thought that I was one of those special and unique sunflowers because my mommy and daddy told me so.

And what if you do make a man of yourself, you find what you think is the right woman but you still end up divorce raped? There are no guarantees in life.

Irony stick, meet Adam’s face. Adam’s face, say hello to irony stick. Pleased to meet you, I’ll have another 27 smacks about the head, thanks.

What conclusions do I have on the topic of marriage? None as yet, they’ll have to wait until I’ve had more time to process what’s happened. This post is about the real importance of never doubling down. You have to own it.

Consider myself owned.

 

37 thoughts on “Revisiting, ‘You don’t need game in marriage’.

  1. Pingback: You don’t need game in marriage. – Adam Piggott

  2. The good news is that having moved to the Netherlands you can probably evade divorce rape relatively easily.

    It probably doesn’t feel like it just now, but if you can escape the DR bit then divorce is just a release to start a new and interesting chapter.

    As for game in marriage. It is hard to be really playful and care free when you have a sword hanging over your head.

    Like

  3. It takes a strong man to admit publicly that he has been wrong in his previous thoughts and actions. This post also shows that none of us know all there is about any subject, and we are always in the process of continuous learning about who we are as people.

    I take my hat off to you, sir.

    Like

  4. Mr. Random Commentuer

    JFC!

    Quit feeling sorry for yourself and GAME HER BACK INTO FRAME!!!

    Murder your self-pity. Right now. It’s evil and wants you to die pathetically and in misery.

    Winners never quit, and quitters get divorce-stomped and no poon.

    Like

  5. Nick Mgtow

    As a skilled PUA myself, I can see through a lot of games people play. A lot of lies they give. My former neighbour, a model, was implying to me that she was in love with her boyfriend at a time, years ago, a long time ago, that she was in love with him because he wrote her poems.

    I knew she was full of shit, because I learned it on the PUA blogs I was frequenting. And, I knew that women don’t love a man for chocolate, flowers, poems, or chivalry, but for sexual attraction.

    So, I told my neighbour “I know you’re bored with him, because if you really liked him, you would not have to lie about what you like about him”.

    That was the first time I saw her totally speechless, taken aback. It was like I applied the Make up removal app on her face. She didn’t know what to say to me, or could not even come back with a lie, because she already knew that I knew. That I ‘spoke her language’ and could see through the bullshit.

    Anyway, people often mistake gaming women with lying. It’s like being perceived as a murderer because you know martial arts or sword fights.

    What makes you a murderer is if you go attack someone with the skills you learned. Same with rape. Or lies. One doesn’t have to lie to get laid.

    And Game isn’t about lying, it’s about understanding the interactions. And coming out on the top of them.

    https://dalrock.wordpress.com/2018/06/02/peterson-cant-handle-the-truth/

    Like

  6. There’s only 1 piece of advice if your marriage is breaking up and you don’t want it to. NEVER BEG. Women have even LESS RESPECT for husbands who beg; so just don’t do it. This in no way guarantees the marriage will survive, but if it doesn’t, you won’t be despising yourself for the next decades.

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    1. Does letting her know that if she changes her mind in a certain amount of time AND has not slept with others in the meantime qualify as begging? I’d think a reasonable approach to “we all make mistakes and here’s how you don’t make it irreversible” would at least offer an out if she realizes she screwed up a month or two from now.

      Like

  7. earl

    I hope you answer this question because it’s a hard one to ask…however it may be another thing that brings to light how you lost frame.

    Did you not have kids because of infertility or because your wife was on contraception?

    Like

  8. Apex Predator

    Phenomenal and also more importantly -timely- piece of introspection. It takes some dudes years, or even never, to learn this hard truth and swallow this bitter pill.

    I’ll only add two things 1) Read Dalrock. He is sort of the de facto expert on Game / Marriage and you may have saved yourself some needless pain had you done so earlier. He is constantly talking about maintaining frame (Which is game said another way) with his wife and gives married man invaluable advice on such.

    2) Echoing what was said above. Don’t beg. Quickly and simply admit you fucked up and then STOP right there. No protracted struggle sessions where you get beat up, none of that shit. “I treated you poorly but treated myself worse by becoming someone I am not.” Lesson learned this is where I’m headed now. You may come along for the ride, or not. Your choice, but THIS Is my plan.

    Don’t edit it, don’t compromise. I briefly mentioned this on your original post but the truth of the matter is genetic reality. Men are holding ALL the cards over 35, many women are completely invisible to men over that age. You must, must must, recalibrate to this reality. Anything you do moving forward whether that be reconciliation or moving on to something new requires this or you will set yourself up for disaster again.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/08/online-dating-out-of-your-league/567083/

    Read that. And if she gives you shit and starts punching back, let her read it too. It is the bitter jagged hard and cold pill no Western Wahmen want to swallow. But 300,000 years of evolution will not be undone with 60 years of feminist horseshit.

    Liked by 1 person

  9. Dingo

    Mate. I’m 62 and got shafted 3 years ago. She took off but I haven’t been financially raped. I should have stopped it 30 years ago but didn’t. I started out life with a fair bit of alpha but fell into the typical 60s, 70s and 80s beta schmuck. I did everything right. But enough. Here’s the rub. I spent a number of years licking my wounds and by April 2017, I had virtually become a MGTOW. I didn’t know any better. Then I discovered YOU, through the XYZ. You, your books, Chateau Heartiste, Rollo Tomassi and the greater Manosphere, put me back in the saddle. I’ve got my FRAME back, got my IRON RULES and I got rid of my Dad’s body (I’m lifting). And I’m chasing younger chicks. The Beta Blue Pill keeps trying to suck me back and it is a daily effort to read and study and practice, and stay focused on what I have promised myself.

    I don’t know your circumstances and I wouldn’t dare comment on them or give you advice. What I do know is that if it has turned to shit, you will move through it and come out the other end. And REMEMBER, YOU saved me. One of my daily mantras is “men don’t give a shit about your job, qualifications, status or power, men just dig tits and arse”.

    Like

  10. Adam T

    I’m incredibly impressed by how well you have faced up to this. I don’t think i know anyone who could be as brutally honest with themselves as this. Almost everyone hides from the truth.

    One question i do have from your previous article… if moving to their country can destroy your frame and you recommend not to do this, does that mean you think its not doable at all?

    Like

    1. No, it’s doable if you do it on your own terms. My wife met me in Italy where I was already well established with a few businesses and many friends – in other words a very strong frame. It worked brilliantly. Moving to her country and depending on her? Not so much.

      Like

  11. Rory Mac

    This is why it is so important – before you get married, and assuming you are a Christian – to make sure you are marrying someone committed to having a covenant marriage… someone who is truly faithful and truly committed to the idea that marriage is a vow and divorce is not an option.

    I dated around a lot (too much) but never even thought about marriage until I met my wife – someone who I knew was as committed to the sacrament as I was. We’ve had some VERY tough times over the years caused by money, kids, and my anxiety – but I never once have considered that she or I would ever leave, because it is just not even an option – the only option for us is to work it out.

    I’m sorry to hear about what you are going through and, like all of your readers, am hoping for the best for you.

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Dave

    If its any consolation, that was one of the handful of posts that I have instinctively disagreed with you ever.

    If going into a new relationship with girl requires strong frame, and then maintaining said relationship with a girlfriend is necessary to keep her, why should marriage be any different?

    I’m not married however, so did not feel qualified to challenge your previous assertion. The day I read your announcement however, I immediately thought of it, so its not surprising that you have taken yourself to task over it.

    If we are to further exploring this, then perhaps the phrase ‘good wife’ was probably a tell in hindsight. A part projection/part pedestalisation of her? Even when she wasn’t being that good wife, you gave her the title nevertheless.

    Truthfully though, I always found old couples calling each other dear and love in the presence of others quite normal and endearing, which is at heart all you were doing in your own way.

    Yes Adam, there were tells with your relationship that you failed with. No children by choice being probably the biggest as mentioned up thread, especially for someone as independent and opinionated as yourself. There are always those guys that NEED a woman. The ones since high school who are never not in a relationship. You are not one of those types though, so that was a weak point for you.

    However I’ll go back to my comments the other day. The society we live in in this day and age is what truly has done you in, not mistakes x or y. I liked your use of the quaint phrase ‘good wife’. Its endearing and something women in the olden days would have loved.

    Not so today however.

    You instincts are right 95% of the time Adam. Your lessons and advice on women are true, practical and helpful to everyone. Yes, you didn’t always follow your own advice, but you are human. If she was going to divorce you over an incident that took place just months ago (when you recalled losing frame), then that turnaround is pretty quick. Without knowing the details, I can hardly imagine you turning into a complete blue pill beta ever since.

    One sniff of weakness, and her mere existence in this Godless/soulless/vapid society/culture did you in.

    Do you seriously think your grandfather never acted beta over decades? Not even a couple of times?

    Mate, the deck was stacked. You didn’t necessarily help yourself its true, but there are bigger forces at play that until harnessed, will see other good men’s marriages ruined, and our civilisations future brought even further into doubt.

    Liked by 1 person

  13. Adam,

    I just finished listening to Cappy’s last Podcast. You are mentioned prominently and he makes an excellent point. As you bounce back from this temporary personal tragedy, you will be perfectly positioned to analyze your journey back to happiness, and to report your lessons learned. May your journey be short!

    Like

  14. Allen

    One of the most valuable things a man can do for himself is to remember the error factor. Every important consideration should contain the question, “what if I’m wrong?” It’s never ending, but who ever said life was easy.

    Like

  15. didact117

    As Dave said up above, that article about how you don’t need game in marriage, and also part of the 24th Trait of the Modern Man – were among the bare handful of moments where I have ever disagreed, instinctively or otherwise, with your writing.

    Since I am not married, I thought that it would be very presumptuous to say anything. And I could see your point: if you have done the hard work to turn yourself into a grown-ass man before you go into marriage, you have a good margin of safety.

    Yet I have seen far too many men who were strong, stable, experienced with women, and had a clear Mission in sight, get married, settle down – and one day get blindsided by their wives walking out on them. It seemed to me that simply having strong frame before entering marriage was not quite enough.

    Even so, as Dave also pointed out, the deck was stacked against you at all times.

    Today a Western woman has every possible encouragement from a sick and twisted society to pull the pin on the single most important institution created to safely and securely help her fulfill her biological urges. She gets help from the government through welfare, she almost always wins in family court against her husband and receives alimony payments, and there will always be an endless stream of Beta orbiters to wine and dine her for as long as she preserves some level of attractiveness.

    This is manifestly unfair – not, of course, that life was ever supposed to be fair, as you yourself have pointed out. And it will not last, because it cannot. But millions more men will go through the same Hell before things change and some semblance of normalcy returns.

    Beyond all of that, though – I have the absolute highest respect for the way that you very publicly admitted that you were wrong and swallowed some serious humble pie. That takes guts and balls to do. I continue to pray for you and hope that you will come through this experience stronger, wiser, and better off than ever.

    Like

  16. Screwtape

    Solid. Humility is gold. Take your lumps either way but honesty with yourself is what keeps the pattern from repeating.

    You are far from alone in your experience. I was jettisoned at the apex of my alpha facade. But it was all optics. We were one of those power couples that are the envy of others. We got on great. But the termites kept feasting on my frame. And I kept ever so subtly handing over the power to her. She despised me for that.

    When the self-lies are so loud they become sage wisdom handed down to others, be wary that something is overcompensating. Check the room. There is probably an elephant.

    Like

  17. TechieDude

    It’s taken me awhile to wrap my head around this concept. Bear with me.

    You need more than Frame/Game in a marriage.

    Frame is the rope you use to climb the mountain on your journey. You need it. But you need more. Like anchors. Those would be tribe/race, religion, family, and children, off the top of my head. While these can be variable, they are helpful to use with frame.

    In your case, you aren’t Dutch. We don’t know if you share a religion, your family is non-existent, hers is around her (and you aren’t part of the tribe, I’m guessing), and you have no kids. Kids are a big tell. If you had her heart totally, she would be wanting kids. Without them, and the other anchors, you’ll drift down to being roommates that have sex. At some point, that becomes routine. Without kids, or moving up the point of the mountain to have kids, there’s nearly zero point in being married. My opinion.

    Frame is important, anchors help you keep and restore it.

    Liked by 1 person

  18. Sorry to read the bad news. In reading/listening to your thoughts, I always wondered about seeking to preserve and rebuild Civilization but not having kids. From a Catholic perspective, a marriage that is not open to children is not valid (i.e. is not really a marriage). Marriage is about establishing a family. Couples who cannot have children of their own can live out fatherhood and motherhood via other means e.g.adoption, mentoring etc.

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  19. Pingback: Whose job is it to keep mama happy? | Dalrock

  20. Nikki

    Hello, I’m in two minds about this post… can you tell already I am a woman? heh.

    The issue is that, if women are man’s natural helpmeet, should she not be expected to stay with you even during the times when you will be dependent on her? Clearly, you would not be dependent on her forever, so why could she not be patient and wait?

    My understanding of the word “helpmeet” is that she is supposed to pick up your slack where she can… so, is she not expected to be dependable (for short periods of time, at least)?

    The best example that comes to mind is when men, who have spent their younger years providing for their families, become old and frail… Usually loyal wives stay loyal and look after their husbands in their old age, and they do so, with a level of love and gratitude for all the man suffered to provide for her when he was younger.

    And maybe God planned it this way for a reason – men tend to die earlier than women… Maybe he wanted the women to look after their husbands in their old age?

    If we follow this line of reasoning, your game in a marriage is secondary to her desire and duty to keep her vow, and stay married. Regardless of whether or not it’s convenient for her.

    Maybe I am speaking out of turn, and that’s not what I’m trying to do – I know this is a man’s sphere, but I’m looking for feedback to increase my own understanding as well… Also, I’m trying to say that while game is necessary, I think the woman here is more responsible for her lack of loyalty.

    Even if you had all the game in the world… if she wanted to leave because she thought she didn’t need you anymore, she would. Women do this all the time in this day and age – to the detriment of society as a whole.

    So, to go back to the phrase, “you don’t need game in marriage”… I don’t think the answer is a simple yes or no.

    I think, as other posters have said, the odds are so stacked heavily against you, and that’s not your fault.

    I genuinely wish you all the best.

    Like

  21. Gramma Marlene

    Man, I’m counting on you to figure it out! I’ve saved all the advice you gave for becoming a man for my 11 year old grandson when he gets older. So I know you are pretty smart. We’ve been married 48 years, made thousands of mistakes. Sure takes a lot of hard work to make this work. Sort of worth it though, don’t you think?

    Like

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