Lifting to get girls is not blue pill.

The 21 Convention was held last weekend in Orlando, Florida, which was a conference dedicated to the manosphere and red pill topics. R.S. McCain covered the event due to a personal invitation from Rollo Tomassi and his report of the weekend and his experiences can be found at his site. I posted my own opinion of McCain’s article in a discussion over at Dalrock’s site.

McCain is on his own red pill journey, as we all are. Some of the stuff that he is writing now would have been unthinkable to him 2 or 3 years ago. His own exposure to these ideas has had a definite effect on him. And when you consider that he is a Boomer and for most of his life has been a mainstream journalist, well, the article that he has written on the 21 convention is quite extraordinary.

McCain is more open to the ideas of the red pill than any other mainstream journalist on the planet. The main reason for this is that McCain is an actual journalist, which is something that they haven’t taught in journalism schools for over 30 years. He reports as opposed to emotes.

As a writer I am constantly surprised at how seemingly innocuous statements that I use as a way to build mood or set a scene are taken as the main body of the story and intensely debated. So too with McCain’s piece, as what I thought was a throwaway section with the same objective to set the tone was instead seized upon in the comments at Dalrock’s site.

Who are these guys? Well, one couldn’t help noticing that many of the 21 Convention speakers and attendees are in prime physical condition. A major concept of red-pill philosophy is understanding what Tomassi calls the “Feminine Imperative” where women’s natural preference for hypergamy (“marrying up,” preferring men of higher socioeconomic status) takes on toxic forms in a culture where traditional morality is condemned and female promiscuity is celebrated as “empowerment.” With the understanding that women prefer high-status “Alpha males,” men who go to the gym and develop a superior physique are in a better position to negotiate relationships on their own terms. This relates to what is known in the manosphere as “sexual market value” (SMV), which is central to understanding women’s mating strategies in terms of what Tomassi calls hypergamy optimization.

There is nothing there that I can find fault with. And yet …

Gym hulk culture isn’t a rejection of feminist hypergamy: it’s a surrender.

Okay. McCain wasn’t talking about roided up monsters so this leap is a bit strange.

Gym hulk culture isn’t a rejection of feminist hypergamy: it’s a surrender.

Couldn’t agree more. Note pre-feminism hardly any men had that steroid induced muscular build. I saw recent pictures of Russian nighlife and was in total awe of how non-muscular the men were. They weren’t fat, they were just normal.

These are the same Russian men who die of alcoholism at 45.

Self improvement for it’s own sake, to be a better man, is red pill.

Self improvement to land a girl is blue.

Not that complicated, though determining which men are doing which is unknowable.

I see this sort of thing all the time, and I take real issue with it. In any movement you will have extremists and in the red pill community if you do anything at all in order to get laid then suddenly by default you are a raving blue pill loser. Now I know that a man needs to have interests for their own sake and not just to get laid. That is extremely important because it establishes credibility in yourself as an interesting man.

But like it or not we are social creatures and we live in a society, and that means interactions and first impressions. You must lift in order to be strong and healthy and to maximise your chances of having an old age that is enjoyable and not an abject misery. But a side benefit of lifting is that you become attractive in the eyes of women, and this is extremely important for the vast majority of men.

Going to the gym and improving yourself in order to raise your sexual market value is not blue pill. What it is is smart. We want women to be young, feminine, and beautiful, while women want men to be strong, powerful, and confident. If lifting in order to raise your SMV was blue pill then gyms would be so crowded that there would be a line out the door and around the block. Instead, the vast majority of men do not go to a gym. And of the men who do go to a gym, the vast majority spend their time on cardio machines. And of the men who do lift, a good number of them are indeed roid freaks that are so juiced up that they leak when they walk down the street.

But prime physical condition, as McCain calls it? That choice of words from a professional writer leads me strongly to believe that he is talking about men who lift. And taken by itself with no other information for context, if a man lifts in order to raise his SMV then he is playing the game correctly.

Self improvement to land a girl is not blue pill. It is in fact the road away from a blue pill existence. It may well be the beginning of the road for many men but that does not lower its importance. In fact if I could only give one piece of advice to men in order to improve themselves it would be to lift. Lifting improves your strength, your physical health, your mental health, your confidence, and your social life.

Lifting is one of my traits of the modern man.

In the world of today men have no real need to develop their physical strength. There are very few rites of passage left to men. This leads to confusion as to what men are, and what their place in society is. For this reason it is vitally important that the modern man develops his physical abilities. Not only is it a rite of passage but it shows the world that this man is ready to be called on in time of need. Pajama Boy not only cannot save anyone else; it is highly doubtful that he can save himself. Women nurture, men protect.

She wants to feel safe in your arms. So you better have strong arms to protect her with. Young men are motivated by their desire to get girls, but even if that is the initial motivation, if he is still lifting 20 years later then you had better believe that things have changed in that regard. And the ability to attract the best woman possible and raise a family with her is the prime motivation for just about anything that men have ever built. Wildly declaring that improving yourself in any way is simply blue pill means that just about every man that ever lived was blue pill. This is not what the definition means. And in any case, life is not black or white, but rather infinite shades of grey.

If you want to start lifting in order to improve your chances with women then I loudly applaud you. Go for it and stick with it. You’ll need other skills and attributes to attract and keep women but the gym is undoubtedly the best place to start. And pick a manly gym while you’re at it, where you can be surrounded by manly men doing manly things. That’s one of the traits as well.

 

 

8 thoughts on “Lifting to get girls is not blue pill.

  1. Dave

    A buddy of mine roided-up in the 1980s and today suffers from:

    – Bubble gut
    – Bitch tits
    – Hair loss
    – Brain related issues

    On top of this he has to keep injecting if he wants to keep these extra unnatural gains, else he’ll look crap with all the extra skin sag…. his short term gains all those years ago now yield a world of pain today. Ironically he did this to try and get girls……. and now looks so bad I think its actually harming his chances.

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    1. Debo

      Ain’t that just the way. Your friend’s story is the story of a million other guys. And yet, they still juice up.

      I like Adam’s response the McCain’s commentary. I must say, as a life-long lifter, I can honestly say it has not helped me get girls at all. I know I’m probably one of the only ones in this regard, but I think it is odd. Either way, I still workout, and will forever.

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      1. Dave

        Don’t get me wrong, I lift myself and enjoy it and it helps me deal with stress – but I’m strictly whatever my body will grant me naturally…… I do consume protein in various forms, but that’s it. My buddy simply serves as life lesson confirmation in my eyes about my own choices.

        With the majority of older Gen-Xers like myself looking like complete crap these days its not hard to stand out as healthy and fit and yes I’ve found that on occasion women do notice when you take care of yourself and say so.

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      2. Debo

        @Dave

        Same here good sir. I’ve never used anything, not even supplements. Some occasional protein powder and that’s it. And like you, my own friends and acquaintances serve as life lessons regarding choices. And none of them ever competed or played sports, there was no reason to do it besides the social.

        I am a younger Gen-Xer, and most look pretty bad on this end too. I generally pass for 10-12 years younger on average. I do stand out because of my appearance and physique, but I really don’t think women actually care about that stuff to be honest. They aren’t opposed to it, but they don’t care either. I don’t think I’ve ever gotten anything out of it. Nevertheless, being muscular and fit is still awesome.

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  2. I appreciate your defense, Adam. My sons all took an interest in weight-lifting from the time they were 14 or 15 and, while none of them are total gym-rats, all of them are physically vigorous.

    My observation about this aspect of “red pill” culture was simply that — an observation — and, based on conversations with Anthony Johnson and others, I see exactly how it fits in with the overall philosophy. Circa 1979, when I was a long-haired rock-and-roll rebel, the Pumping Iron phenomenon was just beginning to emerge as a subculture, whereas I was operating within a separate subculture, where I could play the Bad Boy role at an ultra-lean 135 pounds.

    Could that work today? No, at least not like it worked in 1979. Anthony Johnson pointed out to me that he sees young women on dating apps whose SMV is no higher than 5 who are unwilling to “settle” for any guy who doesn’t have a muscular physique. So my sons have all gone through the protein-shakes-and-bench-press thing in a more serious and persistent way than I ever did, because it’s just obvious now that any guy is doomed if he doesn’t.

    BTW, it wasn’t Rollo who invited me to the 21 Convention. What happened was that I saw he would be there and, having followed his work for a while, I wanted to see the guy in person, so I reached out to Anthony and requested media credentials.

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  3. Bruce

    I lift but I’ve had similar thoughts. There’s a sense that men didn’t used to lift and they weren’t blue pill. E.g. if you lift to satisfy female preference – that you’re a dancing monkey (as one author puts it) and women get to call the tune – so they own you. I assume this is what they mean when they say lifting is blue pill. Not saying they’re right but I see the point they’re getting at.

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  4. 7817

    in the red pill community if you do anything at all in order to get laid then suddenly by default you are a raving blue pill loser.

    These guys saying this garbage are gamma. There’s a few losers in every group trying to pull people down.

    From what I see this attitude isn’t predominant in the red pill community, though. The vocal MGTOW’s tend to this critical outlook more than the rest.

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