Adam Piggott

Gentleman adventurer

Courage and cowardice.

A comment from reader Purge on my podcast article.

Terrence Popp is a member of the Army Special Operations who came home from one of several tours of duty to dind that his wife blew up their marriage. And Vox calls people like that “cowards”?

Yeah, Vox is an asshole.

Vox’s point is not that Popp or men like him are cowards, but that there are different types of courage and cowardice. A man can be courageous on the field of battle but a coward at home under his own roof against his wife. One does not necessarily equate to the other. Perhaps an aspect of wisdom is knowing where your own courage lies.

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33 Comments

  1. Abelard Lindsey

    Vox’s posting represents a sort of “my way or the highway” mentality. In short, if you don’t it my way, you’re a bad and evil person. Making political what are private life decisions is the crap we get from the left all the time. Most of us are sick of the left because of this. Why the hell would we want this from the right as well? I can assure you alt-right will not last long if it allows this mentality to infest it.

    • The future belongs to those who show up for it.

    • Rex

      Why would we want this from the right? Because it’s important to hear from those who share our interests when we are making mistakes. The right certainly won’t last long if you don’t find a suitable woman, marry her, and start having children. If you are Christian and neither being fruitful and multiplying, nor increasing the gift of life that God has given you, you are making a mistake.

      • Mr Black

        Unless you’re home schooling your kids and heavily restricting their access to the internet and to leftist culture, you’re just turning out soldiers for the enemy. There is a very good reason they went after control of the cultural centres of power.

      • Unless you’re home schooling your kids and heavily restricting their access to the internet and to leftist culture, you’re just turning out soldiers for the enemy. There is a very good reason they went after control of the cultural centres of power.

        Yeah, and?

        Leaving aside that you’ve just shown yourself to be a historically ignorant boob, sounds like you already know one action plan for making sure your culture shows up in the future.

        And do you really think the cultural oppression we’re dealing with is that bad on the grand scale of things?

        Admittedly we may yet reach the point of banning the American flag as the non-americans, geographically born here or not, take over, and having english banned, and anyone identified as a thought leader or trouble maker shipped off to death and labor camps, with churches and books torched, and people smuggling bibles in from elsewhere under penalty of death, or entire towns executed to make examples, or worse, but hey, despite the fact those cultures are still with us, having preserved their culture and history despite the oppression, we’ve got the “give up” crowd chanting away.

    • purge187

      This was my larger point. I think I’m about done with Vox’s site; hell, he’d probably ban me if I let loose over there anyway.

      • Independent_George

        Oh he would. He’s a sook. One word of dissent against his dumb opinions and he grabs a comic and goes crawling into a corner sucking on a thumb. I know who the coward is, and it aint the soldier.

        There are a myriad of complexity and histrionics involved in a relationship, especially when you deploy.

        Why Adam keeps defending that nutjob is beyond me.

      • jg1

        Vox’s site has become an echo chamber and cultist society to say the least. He is certainly off base here and seems to be out of touch or chooses to ignore the plight of men in the current marketplace. There are a few on the web who have become his ardent followers and think he is god. I am aware of one in this comment section who has written up a blogpost with statistics and what not to buttress Vox’s claim that MGTOW’s are dishonest pricks and lairs. This commenter has even talked about prenups, but in divorce court it is only worth the paper its written on if kids are involved.The thing that gets me is that for all his attacking of attacking MGTOW, no solutions have been presented for young men to navigate this very dangerous mine field. On Vox’s comment section, only Factory the commenter stood up for single men who decided to walk away from the current mess. Hell, even Aaron Clary has bitten red pill in his most recent podcast and has basically said the juice ain’t worth the squeeze. He is basically telling young men that women today are out of their reach and they do not need them anymore.So, be prepared to remain single for a very long time.
        Why is Vox and hiscultists leading so many innocent young men off the ciff without providing any solutions to this problem?

    • Jack Nickle

      This approach by the left hasn’t weakened the left at all because you might be sick of the left but you keep on rolling over for them.

  2. A

    But Vox is an asshole. A not very bright asshole.

  3. Vox day, or teddy spaghetti?

  4. didact117

    A man can be courageous on the field of battle but a coward at home under his own roof against his wife. One does not necessarily equate to the other. Perhaps an aspect of wisdom is knowing where your own courage lies.

    This is correct.

    No one questions for a moment the courage that Terrence Popp and others bring to the battlefield. In Popp’s case, I have read and reviewed his book. Despite having dyslexia, which makes his book a bit of a challenge to read, he understands what it takes to be a warrior on the battlefield and explains the laws of battle very well indeed.

    I also do not doubt that Popp is a good father and was a good husband. I am sure of this because of his Father’s Day video, in which he showed just what he was capable of doing as a father figure.

    In his case, I have no doubt that his shattered life is far more his ex-wife’s fault than it is his. Relationships break down because of both people involved, not just one of them, in almost all cases.

    But it is not uncommon to see warriors who would gladly run into the teeth of a raging battle to save their brothers, rendered helpless and mute before the rages and whims of their little ladies.

    I’ve seen it. That does happen.

    The other point that is worth making is that real courage involves taking risks – and the outcomes might easily be terrible. That’s the point.

    It doesn’t take much courage to choose a life of solitude, where they get to keep everything that they earn and travel the world and live on their own terms.

    It takes a LOT of courage to marry a woman in the face of a world gone absolutely insane, and bring children into that world – and then raise those children into good, strong, wise men and women.

    That is unbelievably hard work. The hardest job that a man will ever take on is becoming a father. And any man who fathers children will never, ever sleep truly easily again, for fear of something harming his family.

    But ultimately, marriage is still the manifestation of love, and children are still the manifestation of hope.

    Yeah, you could marry the wrong woman and lose very, very badly in the game of life. That’s a risk. Courage lies in assessing risks, measuring the consequences of failure – including terrible harm to one’s own self and psyche – and then getting on with the job anyway, as the Greatest Generation did.

    The natural response to this is that the culture has shifted completely to the point where women are rewarded for blowing up marriages. And that is true. They are. That doesn’t mean that you have absolutely no control over yourself and your circumstances. There is a lot that you can do, as an individual man, to reduce your risks of divorce and legal rape and removal of your children.

    The problem with the plague of MGTOW – which even MGTOWs like Aaron Clarey will tell you – is that they spread despair and hopelessness. And that is not what we as men are created to do.

    • Clarey is not MGOTW. He has had some eipic battles with the MGTOW crowd as he has repeatedly called them out for being losers.

      • didact117

        Yeah, I think he’s distanced himself from that label in recent years.

        I remember reading his work from 10 years back when he was much more willing to subscribe to that label, but it has definitely been poisoned by a bunch of incel losers who turned it into a complaint group.

      • Abelard Lindsey

        Cappy has the most reasonable attitude towards MGTOW. I cannot improve on anything he says in that post.

  5. Simon Thompson

    Popp is a legend. He has maintained relations with his daughters even though it meant driving interstate. He sent me his bookafter I paypal’d a donation for a particularly poignant video.

    • didact117

      Popp is a great guy and I have nothing but respect for him. He sent me a copy of his book too after I donated some cash to his site, and he left a thank-you note after I reviewed it on my blog.

      He is a classic example of an honourable and good man that got screwed over by The System if there ever was one.

  6. As someone else here noted, the future belongs to those who show up.

    You can directly make sure you and yours show up, with your values, or at least indirectly, but unless you’re infertile, that’s half-assing it.

    I’ve been divorce-raped by a woman who, had I been raised better, and had society not started going mad with “listen to wimmin”, I’d have been taught the signs of crazy and would have avoided.

    Her crap threw a severe crimp in my military career, had an impact on a couple commands from sleeping around, severely hurt my son in ways that took years to recover from the psychological scars, and wasted thousands of dollars that I sweated blood to provide before she got herself dead in a single vehicle DUI.

    The repurcussions made it far more difficult than it should have been to build up my life to where it should be even more than a decade later. Years wasted, thousands wasted, reputations and friendships ruined.

    I would not give up my son for anything.

  7. liz

    When you think about everything our ancestors went through to get us here….
    Famines, wars, plagues, slavery, and so forth, over the course of thousands of years.
    Kinda seems like now would be letting them down if I didn’t have children because “things are too hard today”.
    That said, Vox cannot speak knowledgably about marriage or raising a family in a military environment.

    • Rex

      Agreed. And given the adversity that our ancestors overcame, how do the odds that these guys even made it to existence stack against the so-called >50% divorce rate? “Thanks for surviving the Crusades, the Black Death, sailing across the Atlantic, fighting in a revolutionary war, a civil war, a couple of world wars, and multiple financial crashes to bring my pathetic, cowardly ass into this world, but no thanks… I’m gonna give up and not marry and continue the line because I might lose a good chunk of my money and have to keep working! It’s not fair!” It’s not even weak sauce in comparison.

      I do wonder about what the divorce rate is for couples that fall in a more successful marriage demographic but have the military component to the marriage. My guess would be worse off. It’s no good for the husband to be away from his wife for such extended periods of time, especially early in the marriage. I would argue even more so in today’s environment with social media and all. I also wonder how many follow Deuteronomy 24:5. (BTW, that’s a good verse to compare translations on.)

      • liz

        Rex: I do wonder about what the divorce rate is for couples that fall in a more successful marriage demographic but have the military component to the marriage. My guess would be worse off. It’s no good for the husband to be away from his wife for such extended periods of time, especially early in the marriage. I would argue even more so in today’s environment with social media and all. I also wonder how many follow Deuteronomy 24:5. (BTW, that’s a good verse to compare translations on.)

        I’ve looked at statistics and the military has the highest divorce rates for age 30 and under…by a sound margin. We’ve been in squadrons where we were the only non-divorced couple. It’s not an easy life. But over the long haul I would say the marriages that survive are very strong and the families close (a generalization, but true from my experience). My spouse is retired, but we moved 22 times in 25 years (different states and/or countries). Lots and lots of deployments, picking up and going to new schools and so forth. It’s hard on a lot of kids…some do well. This gets into the new counseling issues du jour which I think are a little over the top. Last assignment our kids were labeled and counseled regularly simply because they were military dependents. This is supposed to offset problems but in my experience people adapt better if they aren’t singled out as victims in one way or another.
        Anyway, time to get off my soapbox.

        • The military is not unique and does not have a monopoly on marriage challenges. I work in the offshore oil & gas and maritime world. Rotations vary here from 1 week to 10 months. That’s 10 months at work, 1 month at home. Mining is another example of this; in Australia we refer to it as FIFO – Fly In, Fly Out. While working you work a 12 hour day, every day. There is no downtime. It’s very hard work in very harsh environments and very isolated. Marriages are affected accordingly.

      • liz

        It’s very hard work in very harsh environments and very isolated. Marriages are affected accordingly.

        No doubt. And someone with no experience on the above would be another example of a person who cannot speak knowledgably about that environment.

        • By the same token you would only accept being treated for cancer by a doctor who is himself a cancer survivor.

      • liz

        By the same token you would only accept being treated for cancer by a doctor who is himself a cancer survivor.

        That’s comparing oranges to orangutans.
        But most people do prefer the doctor with some experience to the doctor with no experience whatsoever. The doctor with no experience who calls his patients cowardly is probably going to come across even worse. Not much of a future likely with that bedside manner.

        • No, it’s not. You stated that nobody can have a reasonable opinion about a subject if they do not have direct experience of it themselves. It’s exactly the same. And Popp or any serviceman is not a patient or client of Vox Day so there is no bedside manner argument applicable here. Vox is perfectly able to express his opinion on this subject, just as I am able to myself.

          Milton Friedman expressed this the best so I will leave this video of him schooling some college students.

          [youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0E-URmNAa5o&w=560&h=315%5D

      • liz

        No, it’s not. You stated that nobody can have a reasonable opinion about a subject if they do not have direct experience of it themselves. It’s exactly the same.
        Point of order: The doctor would in fact have a great deal of experience in treating patients. He would not have cancer himself, but his job is not to run a support group for cancer survivors (which would be a closer parallel), it’s to use his experience to do the jay oh bee that he is trained to do.

        And Popp or any serviceman is not a patient or client of Vox Day so there is no bedside manner argument applicable here.
        No, he’s lecturing over the internet. And from the look of things coming across badly to a lot of people.

        Vox is perfectly able to express his opinion on this subject, just as I am able to myself.
        Of course. It’s a free country. And people are also free to form opinions about the validity of criticism from those without experience. It would help to come across a little better (in Vox’s case).

        Good video though.
        -Liz out

    • didact117

      That said, Vox cannot speak knowledgably about marriage or raising a family in a military environment.

      You do know that his grandfather, Lt. Col. Theodore Summers, was considered the Marine’s Marine? And that his “uncle” is Gen. Charles Krulak, former Commandant of the Marine Corps?

      The idea that he doesn’t know anything about what it is like to raise a family in a military environment is plainly ridiculous.

      • liz

        i>You do know that his grandfather, Lt. Col. Theodore Summers, was considered the Marine’s Marine? And that his “uncle” is Gen. Charles Krulak, former Commandant of the Marine Corps?

        I’m not sure what that has to do with his own experiences? Hey, my dad was shot down in Vietnam I guess I know what it’s like to be a combat pilot and can cast aspersions from this sound level of experience at will.

        The idea that he doesn’t know anything about what it is like to raise a family in a military environment is plainly ridiculous.

        My father, uncle, grandfather were all military yet I did not truly know what it was like to be a military spouse and raise the family in the military environment until I personally spent years doing so.

  8. jg1

    This is Coach Greg Adams on Youtube who gives a reasonable argument about only why 1 in 10 marriages survive. He is a victim of divorce, but, has a good argument with sources to justify his claim. So, why would any young man sacrifice himself to the divorce grinder?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Usz_RgwHyEE

  9. Vektor

    Vox Day is an asshole and a narcissist. However, many of the red pill voices are such. Much that they have to say is insightful…but not all. What they say must be filtered by critical thinking and not taken as gospel.

    A large, possible the majority, contingent of MGTOW men are men that tried to follow the script. They got married, they had children, and they got fucked and enslaved by the system despite trying their best to be good husbands and fathers. If Vox Day has no empathy for men in this scenario, then Vox Day can eat shit and die.

    Men who have put their hands on the stove and have been burned badly…..and now choose a life of peace and self-determination. Well….we fucking tried. We followed the self improvement script, and it wasn’t enough. Guess what…it was never going to be enough. So let the bitches burn….and trad-con, no-empathy fuckers like Vox can burn as well. We don’t need or desire your approval.

    Keep punching Right smart guy. There are more of us every day.

    • Independent_George

      Yep. Totally agree with everything you’ve said there. At the end of the day we’re not robots. When u read how crazy Vox is, and how many sycophants he has following him and quoting him, you realise how badly herd suggestion affects not only those on the left.

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